1 00:00:00,690 --> 00:00:29,300 [Music] 2 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:31,070 greetings friends of astrobiology 3 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:33,510 welcome back to ask an astrobiologist a 4 00:00:37,490 --> 00:00:35,489 show where we celebrate science and 5 00:00:39,110 --> 00:00:37,500 celebrate scientists my name is Sanjay 6 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:39,120 saman this program is made possible by 7 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:40,890 contributions from the NASA Astrobiology 8 00:00:46,790 --> 00:00:43,650 program and a non profit blue marble 9 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:46,800 space last month my fiercely soon-to-be 10 00:00:51,619 --> 00:00:49,170 ferociously bearded co-host D Cosmo 11 00:00:53,299 --> 00:00:51,629 biologist dr. Graham Lau had a wonderful 12 00:00:56,150 --> 00:00:53,309 conversation with our guest of the Bruce 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:56,160 Damer and we talked about origin of life 14 00:01:00,530 --> 00:00:57,930 research we talked about asteroid 15 00:01:02,090 --> 00:01:00,540 capture and so this month to give it 16 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:02,100 another shot at the origin of life 17 00:01:06,050 --> 00:01:04,320 thought and on the latest science behind 18 00:01:08,060 --> 00:01:06,060 it know we have none other than 19 00:01:10,639 --> 00:01:08,070 astrobiologists extraordinaire dr. 20 00:01:12,859 --> 00:01:10,649 Laurie barge from NASA JPL which is 21 00:01:14,540 --> 00:01:12,869 located just outside of Los Angeles in 22 00:01:16,219 --> 00:01:14,550 California we'll be talking about 23 00:01:18,410 --> 00:01:16,229 galaxies we'll be talking about Mars 24 00:01:20,330 --> 00:01:18,420 we'll be talking about ocean exploration 25 00:01:22,190 --> 00:01:20,340 hydrothermal vents origin of life and a 26 00:01:23,660 --> 00:01:22,200 whole lot more so I hope you're all 27 00:01:26,210 --> 00:01:23,670 excited as I am for this wonderful 28 00:01:29,029 --> 00:01:26,220 conversation but first it's time for 29 00:01:31,010 --> 00:01:29,039 your monthly background quiz Mike if you 30 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:31,020 could put up the background that Graham 31 00:01:37,070 --> 00:01:34,650 had last month a few of you got it right 32 00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:37,080 as you can recognize it was the Ionian 33 00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:39,630 islands in the Mediterranean home of the 34 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:42,000 majestic volcano Stromboli which has 35 00:01:46,190 --> 00:01:44,010 been continuously erupting roughly for 36 00:01:47,810 --> 00:01:46,200 the past 2000 years the Romans know 37 00:01:50,179 --> 00:01:47,820 about it and we know about it today 38 00:01:51,620 --> 00:01:50,189 because the last explosive eruption was 39 00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:51,630 actually just this past August 40 00:01:55,370 --> 00:01:53,520 it rises about almost at a thousand 41 00:01:58,190 --> 00:01:55,380 meters above sea level and it's a lovely 42 00:02:00,319 --> 00:01:58,200 ride from Sicily on a beautiful ferry to 43 00:02:03,260 --> 00:02:00,329 get to the Aeolian Islands Sicily of 44 00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:03,270 course is home to the massive volcano 45 00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:05,820 and so a few of you got it right but our 46 00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:08,940 winner who's gonna win the NASA stickers 47 00:02:15,140 --> 00:02:12,030 as well as the astrobiology graphics 48 00:02:18,259 --> 00:02:15,150 novel is Jaime Cordova who is tweeting 49 00:02:20,390 --> 00:02:18,269 at Jaime core underscore 94 50 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:20,400 congratulations and thank you very much 51 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:22,290 for playing and we also want to 52 00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:24,930 recognize our ambassador of the month to 53 00:02:29,449 --> 00:02:26,760 make this show successful we need all of 54 00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:29,459 your help in tweeting and retweeting and 55 00:02:32,900 --> 00:02:30,480 telling your friends and telling 56 00:02:34,729 --> 00:02:32,910 teachers about our program and the 57 00:02:37,130 --> 00:02:34,739 person who does it the most during the 58 00:02:40,670 --> 00:02:37,140 the previous previous to this episode 59 00:02:41,770 --> 00:02:40,680 gets the award and this month again for 60 00:02:43,710 --> 00:02:41,780 the second time is very 61 00:02:46,150 --> 00:02:43,720 Denton thank you so much Marianne and 62 00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:46,160 really grateful for all the support and 63 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:48,620 for your or you love the show we love to 64 00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:50,690 have fans like you and fans for all of 65 00:02:53,830 --> 00:02:51,680 you from all of you from all over the 66 00:02:57,130 --> 00:02:53,840 world and thank you again for all you're 67 00:02:58,059 --> 00:02:57,140 doing for the program okay so to get 68 00:02:59,559 --> 00:02:58,069 things started 69 00:03:01,059 --> 00:02:59,569 Lori barges and incredible 70 00:03:03,370 --> 00:03:01,069 astrobiologist has been really hard to 71 00:03:05,710 --> 00:03:03,380 decide where to start so but like we 72 00:03:07,449 --> 00:03:05,720 like to do in the in this in this series 73 00:03:10,449 --> 00:03:07,459 is turn back the wheels of time a little 74 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:10,459 bit and and welcome Lori and perhaps you 75 00:03:14,949 --> 00:03:13,010 can tell us a little bit how or what 76 00:03:17,710 --> 00:03:14,959 events got you started thinking about 77 00:03:19,479 --> 00:03:17,720 science when you're perhaps a kid well 78 00:03:21,250 --> 00:03:19,489 I've always actually been really 79 00:03:23,530 --> 00:03:21,260 interested in space I don't even really 80 00:03:25,540 --> 00:03:23,540 know why this began but I was kind of 81 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:25,550 like a nerdy kid who liked space but not 82 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:28,010 exclusively I liked a lot of stuff and I 83 00:03:32,140 --> 00:03:30,170 was reading like the little kid books 84 00:03:34,390 --> 00:03:32,150 about stars and planets and things like 85 00:03:36,370 --> 00:03:34,400 that and and I remember one big thing 86 00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:36,380 though was when the Voyager flyby of 87 00:03:41,410 --> 00:03:39,380 Neptune happened in 1989 and that was a 88 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:41,420 big deal because I just never never seen 89 00:03:45,370 --> 00:03:43,130 Neptune before really up close like none 90 00:03:46,810 --> 00:03:45,380 of us had and so it was really it was on 91 00:03:49,180 --> 00:03:46,820 the news and I got to stay up late and 92 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:49,190 look at it and it was really cool and so 93 00:03:52,390 --> 00:03:51,170 I think that was one of the things that 94 00:03:54,130 --> 00:03:52,400 made me think you know maybe I'll 95 00:03:56,350 --> 00:03:54,140 actually go work for NASA I didn't know 96 00:03:58,210 --> 00:03:56,360 what that meant I was young yeah that 97 00:04:00,100 --> 00:03:58,220 was one thing and then I just kind of 98 00:04:02,020 --> 00:04:00,110 threw out I guess my elementary school 99 00:04:03,130 --> 00:04:02,030 in high school I was always kind of 100 00:04:04,930 --> 00:04:03,140 interested in the stuff in the 101 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:04,940 background among other other types of 102 00:04:08,020 --> 00:04:06,170 interests and it wasn't really until 103 00:04:09,539 --> 00:04:08,030 college that I decided that I was going 104 00:04:13,690 --> 00:04:09,549 to do this as a career 105 00:04:16,479 --> 00:04:13,700 wonderful yeah I remember fly by as well 106 00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:16,489 of Neptune in 1989 I was eight years old 107 00:04:20,770 --> 00:04:17,900 and is still very much ingrained in my 108 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:20,780 memory and a big part of why I became a 109 00:04:24,310 --> 00:04:23,210 scientist as well but even in college 110 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:24,320 from what I understand you're not 111 00:04:27,370 --> 00:04:26,090 entirely sure what it to follow a career 112 00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:27,380 in science you have a very strong 113 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:30,080 interest in theater as well right that's 114 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:31,610 right and actually in high school 115 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:33,890 theater was my huge thing like I was 116 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:35,330 really into it it's what I spent all my 117 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:37,310 time on and so I thought well I don't 118 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:38,690 know what I want to major in maybe 119 00:04:43,210 --> 00:04:41,090 theater maybe astronomy because I like 120 00:04:45,190 --> 00:04:43,220 the Stars and I just didn't know and I 121 00:04:47,620 --> 00:04:45,200 actually I applied for college in 122 00:04:49,150 --> 00:04:47,630 theater like I I sent in applications 123 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:49,160 for theater schools and I made a 124 00:04:52,570 --> 00:04:51,050 portfolio and everything but I also 125 00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:52,580 applied for being a physics and 126 00:04:56,190 --> 00:04:53,590 astronomy major 127 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:56,200 and in the end I got into a school that 128 00:05:00,810 --> 00:04:58,810 had no theatre degree for undergrad and 129 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:00,820 so I got the minor instead and I was 130 00:05:04,890 --> 00:05:02,800 just doing student theatre but again in 131 00:05:06,629 --> 00:05:04,900 college I was super into it and I spent 132 00:05:08,670 --> 00:05:06,639 I'd say way more time doing that than I 133 00:05:10,650 --> 00:05:08,680 was doing maybe equal I say to what I 134 00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:10,660 was doing with my astronomy and so it 135 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:12,190 was it was a real tough thing and I'd 136 00:05:15,810 --> 00:05:14,470 say it wasn't until maybe like junior 137 00:05:17,850 --> 00:05:15,820 year senior year of college when I 138 00:05:19,050 --> 00:05:17,860 really decided I'm gonna get a PhD in 139 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:19,060 science and this is going to be the 140 00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:23,080 career those of you are watching now 141 00:05:27,210 --> 00:05:24,880 don't forget you can ask questions in 142 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:27,220 the chat boxes on Signet or on Twitter 143 00:05:30,450 --> 00:05:29,200 please use hashtag ask a sir bio if 144 00:05:32,610 --> 00:05:30,460 you're watching on Facebook ask the 145 00:05:35,190 --> 00:05:32,620 questions - I will I will chew them up 146 00:05:36,990 --> 00:05:35,200 for dr. Barger later on in the show so 147 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:37,000 you ended up getting a bachelor's degree 148 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:39,610 in astronomy lorry's that right and then 149 00:05:48,210 --> 00:05:42,130 you're studying then the Magellan 150 00:05:49,950 --> 00:05:48,220 Magellanic Clouds tell us more so I I 151 00:05:52,469 --> 00:05:49,960 think I started this sophomore year I 152 00:05:53,940 --> 00:05:52,479 was doing research on binary stars which 153 00:05:56,460 --> 00:05:53,950 is where you have two stars that orbit 154 00:05:58,110 --> 00:05:56,470 each other and that was pretty 155 00:06:00,210 --> 00:05:58,120 interesting because you can measure 156 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:00,220 their mass and their brightness and then 157 00:06:03,570 --> 00:06:02,020 you can get the periodicity of the orbit 158 00:06:05,430 --> 00:06:03,580 and from that you can try to get at 159 00:06:07,620 --> 00:06:05,440 their distance and so I was trying to 160 00:06:09,090 --> 00:06:07,630 understand you know from these spectral 161 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:09,100 observations where you see that the 162 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:10,810 spectral lines kind of shift with 163 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:12,010 redshift or blueshift 164 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:13,810 can you tell you know how these are 165 00:06:17,610 --> 00:06:15,610 orbiting and what what their properties 166 00:06:19,710 --> 00:06:17,620 might be so that was my research as an 167 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:19,720 undergraduate and the binary systems I 168 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:21,370 studied were in the small Magellanic 169 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:23,410 Cloud which is a small galaxy that 170 00:06:26,850 --> 00:06:25,510 orbits the Milky Way and it was funny 171 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:26,860 because those you can always see from 172 00:06:30,450 --> 00:06:28,810 the southern hemisphere of Earth and so 173 00:06:32,310 --> 00:06:30,460 I never actually seen them before start 174 00:06:34,409 --> 00:06:32,320 studying stuff that I'd never seen so 175 00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:34,419 later much later I was able to see them 176 00:06:39,029 --> 00:06:36,360 in the sky and that was really awesome I 177 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:39,039 think the sky in the southern hemisphere 178 00:06:43,710 --> 00:06:41,470 is a lot more beautiful than it is in 179 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:43,720 northern hemisphere I mean the Milky Way 180 00:06:46,529 --> 00:06:45,370 is gorgeous then you can see the two 181 00:06:49,529 --> 00:06:46,539 Magellanic Clouds which are of course 182 00:06:50,850 --> 00:06:49,539 not clouds but galaxies just there in 183 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:50,860 the distance and for scale you know 184 00:06:54,900 --> 00:06:52,150 there are of course at different 185 00:06:56,610 --> 00:06:54,910 distances and they are but 10 or 10 186 00:06:59,219 --> 00:06:56,620 times smaller than our own galaxy but 187 00:07:00,690 --> 00:06:59,229 nonetheless extremely impressive so and 188 00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:00,700 so what happened after you got your 189 00:07:06,340 --> 00:07:02,380 bachelor's in astronomy because you 190 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:06,350 ended up working in on Mars geology for 191 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:09,020 it's cool to start with no yeah it was 192 00:07:13,450 --> 00:07:11,210 it was interesting I was basically all 193 00:07:15,490 --> 00:07:13,460 those time just following what I like 194 00:07:17,530 --> 00:07:15,500 doing and I would have you know a few 195 00:07:18,970 --> 00:07:17,540 things that I really enjoyed and I would 196 00:07:20,710 --> 00:07:18,980 do them more and then I would discover 197 00:07:22,330 --> 00:07:20,720 something new that I enjoyed know do 198 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:22,340 that and then that's kind of snow what 199 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:25,610 I'm doing and so when I was a college 200 00:07:29,260 --> 00:07:26,990 student I was doing this research and I 201 00:07:32,050 --> 00:07:29,270 liked that taking classes and I enjoyed 202 00:07:33,610 --> 00:07:32,060 astronomy we took a class called I can't 203 00:07:35,230 --> 00:07:33,620 even remember I think it's meteorology 204 00:07:37,450 --> 00:07:35,240 of the planets and we each had to do a 205 00:07:39,430 --> 00:07:37,460 report on a planet so I got the planet 206 00:07:41,590 --> 00:07:39,440 Venus and I did this report and I got so 207 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:41,600 into it and it was super exciting and I 208 00:07:45,250 --> 00:07:43,370 thought wow planets are awesome like I 209 00:07:46,750 --> 00:07:45,260 wish I could study the planets but when 210 00:07:48,250 --> 00:07:46,760 I was reading the books about Venus I 211 00:07:50,590 --> 00:07:48,260 didn't know what these names meant like 212 00:07:52,030 --> 00:07:50,600 the salt or granite you know so I 213 00:07:54,940 --> 00:07:52,040 thought I'd better get I better learn 214 00:07:56,890 --> 00:07:54,950 geology but I'm also afraid to change my 215 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:56,900 field because you can't just go to grad 216 00:07:59,830 --> 00:07:58,250 school and a whole different major than 217 00:08:02,350 --> 00:07:59,840 what your undergrad major was right and 218 00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:02,360 so that's what I thought the time so I 219 00:08:07,510 --> 00:08:04,580 applied to grad school in in astronomy 220 00:08:09,970 --> 00:08:07,520 and but also in geology like just a few 221 00:08:11,980 --> 00:08:09,980 applications for geology and I actually 222 00:08:13,930 --> 00:08:11,990 got into one school for geology and I 223 00:08:15,610 --> 00:08:13,940 was really scared to accept actually 224 00:08:17,290 --> 00:08:15,620 because I thought I can't I can't go get 225 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:17,300 a PhD and something I did not major in 226 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:19,370 so I'm really glad that I you know took 227 00:08:23,830 --> 00:08:21,830 that leap and did that and then actually 228 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:23,840 also the summer after my undergraduate 229 00:08:27,850 --> 00:08:25,460 degree I did an internship at NASA 230 00:08:30,130 --> 00:08:27,860 Goddard where I was working on Mars 231 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:30,140 chemical analysis type stuff like bio 232 00:08:33,790 --> 00:08:32,090 signatures but again it was not a 233 00:08:36,190 --> 00:08:33,800 chemistry major so this is all very new 234 00:08:39,219 --> 00:08:36,200 to me and I just kept doing stuff that 235 00:08:40,450 --> 00:08:39,229 was very new but really exciting I think 236 00:08:42,339 --> 00:08:40,460 that's the hallmark of being in 237 00:08:43,810 --> 00:08:42,349 astrobiologists to be able to take a 238 00:08:45,580 --> 00:08:43,820 bunch of different disciplines that tie 239 00:08:47,770 --> 00:08:45,590 them all together to focus on a science 240 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:47,780 question and you know I did the same 241 00:08:50,940 --> 00:08:49,730 thing you know changed my majors after 242 00:08:53,260 --> 00:08:50,950 my master's degree in engineering 243 00:08:55,330 --> 00:08:53,270 towards the Earth Sciences so it's very 244 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:55,340 possible those of you who are who are 245 00:08:58,030 --> 00:08:56,810 watching on our students you know 246 00:08:59,620 --> 00:08:58,040 wondering what to major in to do 247 00:09:00,820 --> 00:08:59,630 astrobiology actually can major in 248 00:09:02,380 --> 00:09:00,830 really whatever you want it is a 249 00:09:04,930 --> 00:09:02,390 scientific question thereafter that 250 00:09:06,820 --> 00:09:04,940 makes you an astrobiologist but Laurie 251 00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:06,830 after getting I think your masters in in 252 00:09:10,210 --> 00:09:08,300 geology and looking at the blueberries 253 00:09:11,890 --> 00:09:10,220 on Mars right past we can talk about the 254 00:09:13,150 --> 00:09:11,900 significance of those blueberries those 255 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:13,160 tiny spherules 256 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:15,350 of of hematite and iron oxide that 257 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:17,930 contain sand grains they tell us 258 00:09:21,930 --> 00:09:18,910 something about the 259 00:09:24,810 --> 00:09:21,940 environment of Mars no yeah and actually 260 00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:24,820 I started grad school in 2004 so that 261 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:26,800 was when the Mars exploration Rovers had 262 00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:28,720 landed and they had opportunity Rover 263 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:30,280 had discovered these blueberries which 264 00:09:34,980 --> 00:09:32,410 are little little tiny few rules of iron 265 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:34,990 oxide and at the time people didn't know 266 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:36,670 how they formed and maybe it had to do 267 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:39,130 with water and maybe not and it was you 268 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:41,800 know interesting mystery and so I was 269 00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:43,420 meanwhile learning geology for the first 270 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:45,430 time and also kind of like the chemistry 271 00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:47,260 and so I got really interested in this 272 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:49,120 and I thought well maybe I can try to 273 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:50,710 make these in the lab or maybe 274 00:09:54,060 --> 00:09:52,330 understand could they have been related 275 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:54,070 to organics or something like that and 276 00:09:59,820 --> 00:09:57,010 so I did my thesis work on looking at 277 00:10:02,790 --> 00:09:59,830 how patterns form in geologic things 278 00:10:04,230 --> 00:10:02,800 without life but can organics affect the 279 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:04,240 pattern and what does that all mean for 280 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:07,120 looking for life elsewhere so I think 281 00:10:11,610 --> 00:10:08,890 that that seeded your brain the 282 00:10:13,710 --> 00:10:11,620 possibilities of laboratory synthesis 283 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:13,720 right of creating stuff you see in real 284 00:10:17,460 --> 00:10:15,430 world in the lab to really focus 285 00:10:20,610 --> 00:10:17,470 scientific questions and answering 286 00:10:24,270 --> 00:10:20,620 processes or how life affects them or 287 00:10:26,850 --> 00:10:24,280 not right yeah and you know lab work was 288 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:26,860 it was a challenge then because I don't 289 00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:28,180 really do a lot of lab work as an 290 00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:31,360 astronomy major and so when I got to 291 00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:33,220 grad school I was learning for the first 292 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:35,680 time just simple techniques and like you 293 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:37,510 know how to do chemicals and and all 294 00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:39,850 that and so that was that was 295 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:41,920 challenging but learning to do that it 296 00:10:45,540 --> 00:10:44,170 was it was more than just focusing on 297 00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:45,550 this project it was a whole new 298 00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:47,380 technique and field of science that I 299 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:49,240 once I got into it I realized I could 300 00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:51,250 apply it to all kinds of stuff so that 301 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:53,260 kind of room I guess over the years and 302 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:54,700 grad school and then by the end I 303 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:55,810 thought well there's so many things I 304 00:10:58,520 --> 00:10:57,130 could do now with all these different 305 00:11:02,310 --> 00:10:58,530 types of science field 306 00:11:04,110 --> 00:11:02,320 so how did your interests change from 307 00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:04,120 looking at the Martian surface geology 308 00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:05,920 and interpretation of the rocks to say 309 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:07,840 something about the environment so what 310 00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:09,190 you're doing now which is trying to 311 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:12,460 simulate hydrothermal hot springs or 312 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:15,790 hydrothermal chimneys in the lab well 313 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:17,890 it's it's funny it's kind of it was a 314 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,290 planned transition and it kind of the 315 00:11:24,330 --> 00:11:22,240 stuff that just happened like I was 316 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:24,340 really interested in bio signatures and 317 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:27,250 also in grad school I started getting a 318 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:28,930 lot more involved with astrobiology as a 319 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:30,850 field even though technically my my 320 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:32,650 degree was not astrobiology so this is 321 00:11:36,540 --> 00:11:34,870 all outside activities that I was doing 322 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:36,550 to try to see if this is a field I 323 00:11:40,860 --> 00:11:38,290 wanted to be in sorry did all these 324 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:40,870 astrobiology things and then when 325 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:42,910 thinking about bio signatures it's 326 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:44,650 interesting because my research found 327 00:11:48,660 --> 00:11:46,450 that when we added organics to these 328 00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:48,670 systems of minerals but patterns that 329 00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:50,500 were formed would change and so you 330 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:52,120 could sort of use those patterns is a 331 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:53,770 diagnostic trace of whether they were 332 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:55,240 organics there in the first place and 333 00:11:59,760 --> 00:11:57,850 then I thought well you know it's only a 334 00:12:01,320 --> 00:11:59,770 small leap from saying organics effect 335 00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:01,330 minerals and you can use that as a 336 00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:03,190 diagnostic tool just saying well if 337 00:12:07,230 --> 00:12:04,990 organics and minerals are so intertwined 338 00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:07,240 then is that a you know can you actually 339 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:09,790 go toward biology that way I mean maybe 340 00:12:13,470 --> 00:12:11,170 part of the reason it looks so much like 341 00:12:15,870 --> 00:12:13,480 life is because it's related to how life 342 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:15,880 began and so I had an interest in origin 343 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:18,490 of life and I hadn't really planned to 344 00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:19,930 start working on a mission related stuff 345 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:21,880 but through the people I met at 346 00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:23,770 conferences I ended up getting a postdoc 347 00:12:27,660 --> 00:12:25,660 at JPL that was focused on Europa 348 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:27,670 focused on icy worlds in particular and 349 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:30,160 so I kind of threw myself into that and 350 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:31,450 I learned that the ocean is really 351 00:12:34,770 --> 00:12:32,530 awesome and there's a whole bunch of 352 00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:34,780 research there too and so now I'd say 353 00:12:39,870 --> 00:12:37,180 about half of my work is kind of soil 354 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:39,880 science mineralogy organic related it is 355 00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,410 a little bit in some ways related to 356 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:43,600 what I did as a PhD student but then the 357 00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:45,430 other half is oceanography and you know 358 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:47,860 missions to the deep sea and how you can 359 00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:49,090 explore vents and what that might mean 360 00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,700 for life another world and so my 361 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:54,160 patterns of minerals are you saying that 362 00:12:59,400 --> 00:12:56,650 the shape that some minerals inside 363 00:13:01,140 --> 00:12:59,410 rocks can take is a signature of whether 364 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:01,150 they've been affected by biological 365 00:13:05,970 --> 00:13:04,330 processes well it might be a signature 366 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:05,980 of that or it could be a signature of 367 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:07,810 whether organics have been there and 368 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:10,210 organics don't have to be biological so 369 00:13:14,730 --> 00:13:12,430 that was that was one of the main things 370 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:14,740 that that I found is that you can you 371 00:13:18,690 --> 00:13:16,570 can tweak systems a lot within the lab 372 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,700 by adding organics and organics will 373 00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:20,320 change the minerals and the minerals can 374 00:13:23,730 --> 00:13:22,720 affect the organics but it doesn't have 375 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:23,740 to be biological 376 00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:25,540 although biology can also do this 377 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:28,060 sometimes and so when you're trying to 378 00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:29,770 understand you know whether or not life 379 00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:31,630 caused a certain effect you have to 380 00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:33,520 think about why exactly would life cause 381 00:13:37,140 --> 00:13:35,950 that and is it just because organics can 382 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:37,150 cause it and how do you tell the 383 00:13:41,810 --> 00:13:38,530 difference it's a really complicated 384 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:41,820 problem that sounds like it's 385 00:13:47,190 --> 00:13:44,730 geological or geochemical processes 386 00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:47,200 essentially water and rocks interacting 387 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:49,630 and with certain in a certain way can 388 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:52,480 create the components that life can take 389 00:13:58,020 --> 00:13:55,930 advantage of to then evolve from I mean 390 00:13:59,730 --> 00:13:58,030 I think so and that's you know a lot of 391 00:14:02,400 --> 00:13:59,740 research in this field has been showing 392 00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:02,410 now how there's a lot of energy sources 393 00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:04,750 and geological settings very interesting 394 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:06,340 organic chemistry can emerge a 395 00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:09,130 non-biological system and the complexity 396 00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:10,990 that you can get in organic chemical 397 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:13,600 systems is really huge and you can see 398 00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:15,130 this from all the all the work in the 399 00:14:18,630 --> 00:14:17,140 urgent applied field you know there's 400 00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:18,640 not microbes doing these things 401 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:20,830 it's a biotic lab chemistry and yet it's 402 00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:23,350 so complex and so how much of that 403 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:25,750 happened on other planets we know at 404 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:27,190 least would happen on earth to make life 405 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:29,650 but how far did it go on Mars if at all 406 00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:31,690 but what about places like Ceres are in 407 00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:33,940 celibates so it's really interesting to 408 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:35,980 tweak the geological condition and see 409 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:38,530 what are their effects you can get so 410 00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:40,390 you can create really complex molecules 411 00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:42,640 from really simple building blocks using 412 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:47,260 kind of the the thermal water system as 413 00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:50,080 the engine right yeah and I mean some of 414 00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:52,150 this some chemistry can emerge in 415 00:14:55,980 --> 00:14:54,340 hydrothermal vents of a deep-sea system 416 00:14:58,650 --> 00:14:55,990 where you have these gradients of 417 00:15:00,630 --> 00:14:58,660 temperature and pH and redox potential 418 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:00,640 and chemistry and you can get a lot of 419 00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:02,830 interesting chemistry there and vent 420 00:15:06,750 --> 00:15:05,020 systems are so diverse you have all 421 00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,760 types of gradients you have different 422 00:15:10,890 --> 00:15:08,320 depths and you know different types of 423 00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:10,900 cycling and whatnot and so it's it's a 424 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,640 whole this this whole interesting world 425 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:14,560 to explore of what our Ganic chemistry 426 00:15:18,030 --> 00:15:16,210 can do but there's other environments 427 00:15:19,950 --> 00:15:18,040 too they can do things and so it's not 428 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:19,960 so much about exactly what environment 429 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:21,730 it is it's more about what conditions 430 00:15:25,890 --> 00:15:23,890 can lead to what types the products and 431 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:25,900 what types of systems and then it's 432 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:27,730 possible you might have a condition that 433 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:29,170 could be found in multiple environments 434 00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:32,050 right and so maybe the origin of life 435 00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:34,270 has multiple possibilities or multiple 436 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:36,670 possible outcomes and and it starts to 437 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:39,370 get very philosophical you think it was 438 00:15:42,810 --> 00:15:41,110 a unique setting for the origin of life 439 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:42,820 or different planet or environments 440 00:15:47,790 --> 00:15:44,230 created the different things that then 441 00:15:50,430 --> 00:15:47,800 came together to promote the chemistry 442 00:15:51,690 --> 00:15:50,440 that led to life you know I don't 443 00:15:54,140 --> 00:15:51,700 actually know I mean nobody knows really 444 00:15:55,550 --> 00:15:54,150 and I don't know 445 00:15:59,150 --> 00:15:55,560 the right question to be asking because 446 00:16:01,160 --> 00:15:59,160 it's not I don't think about what exact 447 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:01,170 environment cause the origin of life is 448 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:01,850 I think that's 449 00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:04,170 misdirecting because you don't know what 450 00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:05,640 conditions different environments and 451 00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:07,560 have and important thing is like 452 00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:09,060 conditions that are needed for the 453 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:11,550 chemistry to occur are present and as 454 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:13,170 long as those conditions are present any 455 00:16:17,660 --> 00:16:14,730 environment that provides them to be 456 00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:17,670 fine and that also kind of opens up for 457 00:16:22,010 --> 00:16:20,310 separate planetary exploration if we 458 00:16:24,830 --> 00:16:22,020 talk about what conditions evening then 459 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:24,840 you can say you know do let's say event 460 00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:26,850 on Enceladus and Europa have that 461 00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:29,190 condition or if you have it on like a 462 00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:31,740 pool on Mars in the ancient past or 463 00:16:36,020 --> 00:16:34,230 something our subsurface today and so I 464 00:16:40,010 --> 00:16:36,030 don't really think about it as it has to 465 00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:40,020 be this environment that environment but 466 00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:41,880 yet you study hydrothermal systems in 467 00:16:46,220 --> 00:16:43,590 the labs and very curious first of all 468 00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:46,230 how does one create such hydrothermal 469 00:16:50,270 --> 00:16:48,060 systems in the lab and then once you 470 00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:50,280 have created them how do you measure 471 00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:53,880 interesting chemistry in them yeah so I 472 00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:55,860 think it's really fun to study what 473 00:16:59,150 --> 00:16:57,660 happens at the sea floor because that's 474 00:17:01,400 --> 00:16:59,160 the majority of the surface of the earth 475 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:01,410 is an ocean and also on other worlds 476 00:17:03,830 --> 00:17:02,910 like you're open and sell it is or you 477 00:17:05,690 --> 00:17:03,840 don't have any land 478 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:05,700 what would is possible even in these 479 00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:08,730 systems and so we look at vents we see 480 00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:10,260 that there's there's all these sub 481 00:17:14,540 --> 00:17:12,540 seafloor kind of fluid alteration 482 00:17:16,070 --> 00:17:14,550 processes and then the fluids come up 483 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:16,080 and they interact and they interface 484 00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:17,850 with the ocean and you can grow these 485 00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:19,980 sediments and chimneys and there's a lot 486 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:22,140 of huge types of chimneys that can form 487 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:24,089 on earth they form they can be very 488 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:25,770 quick forming they can be very slow 489 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:28,140 forming and so in the lab we actually 490 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,570 will simulate some of this by having a 491 00:17:34,610 --> 00:17:32,640 little vessel that is full of ocean 492 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:34,620 water and so this could be early Earth 493 00:17:38,780 --> 00:17:36,570 modern earth you know whatever ocean you 494 00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:38,790 want and then we slowly inject a 495 00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:41,400 hydrothermal solution which mimics how 496 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:43,200 the solutions come up from the sea floor 497 00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:45,330 so if you inject that slowly from the 498 00:17:49,670 --> 00:17:47,400 bottom you can grow chimneys in the lab 499 00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:49,680 and you can see how that chemistry might 500 00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:51,480 be similar to stuff that you see in 501 00:18:00,430 --> 00:17:55,980 nature Wow so how big are your chimneys 502 00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:03,020 little chimney is like Brady bottles 503 00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:05,400 this big chimney is this big and it's 504 00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:07,620 more about the gradients you can you 505 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:09,270 have chemistry occurring in a small 506 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:11,610 system or a big system it just depends 507 00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:14,130 on what minerals and materials are 508 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:15,960 present and what gradients are there and 509 00:18:20,330 --> 00:18:18,570 we can simulate a lot of the important 510 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:20,340 properties of vents in the lab with a 511 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:22,530 small chimneys but for some cases you do 512 00:18:26,180 --> 00:18:23,850 need to go to the field and look at the 513 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:26,190 much bigger ones and then we're going to 514 00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:27,690 talk about field work in a second but 515 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:30,150 imperious because the gradients are the 516 00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:32,730 the boundary between the chimney and the 517 00:18:36,530 --> 00:18:34,620 ocean water rights how do you measure in 518 00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:36,540 the lab what's going on there you have 519 00:18:39,799 --> 00:18:38,460 special equipment is it something you 520 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:39,809 have to touch or you shine a laser 521 00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:41,910 through or like what are your techniques 522 00:18:47,299 --> 00:18:44,640 well so one of the techniques we use is 523 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:47,309 using electrodes and so kind of like a 524 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:49,410 battery if you have two electrodes and 525 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:50,610 you put them where you're going to have 526 00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:52,650 one kind of end of your redox potential 527 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:54,270 and one where you have the other end you 528 00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,890 can measure the potential and the 529 00:18:59,600 --> 00:18:57,840 current that's generated and so we 530 00:19:01,370 --> 00:18:59,610 figure a chimney and you put an 531 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:01,380 electrode inside the chimney and you 532 00:19:04,820 --> 00:19:02,910 have another one that's outside in the 533 00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:04,830 ocean water and you can measure the 534 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:06,000 potential that that chimney is 535 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:08,130 generating and you can also measure say 536 00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:10,200 electrical current and so on so it's a 537 00:19:13,250 --> 00:19:11,550 little bit similar to how if you have a 538 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:13,260 battery and you put you know your two 539 00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:14,910 ends of the multimeter on it you can 540 00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,440 measure the battery and so the chimney 541 00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:18,960 is like a battery too and so we did some 542 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:21,120 research where we generated energy 543 00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:23,130 electrical energy from a chimney in the 544 00:19:27,169 --> 00:19:25,320 lab and we linked several of those to 545 00:19:29,450 --> 00:19:27,179 muse together in order to light a little 546 00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:29,460 LED light so just the show that you know 547 00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:31,200 these do generate energy and the 548 00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:32,790 chimneys are like little batteries and 549 00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:35,520 so instead you can imagine that instead 550 00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:37,260 of light bulbs it's its energy for 551 00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,910 chemical reactions and you might be able 552 00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:41,280 to do things like say provide organic 553 00:19:47,180 --> 00:19:44,100 compounds that might not exist before so 554 00:19:48,740 --> 00:19:47,190 cool success requires energy and so 555 00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:48,750 you're able to measure the voltage 556 00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:51,000 inside the chimney in the ocean which is 557 00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:54,750 an expression of energy and and so such 558 00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,559 settings could trigger situations where 559 00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,960 life can take advantage of that yeah 560 00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:03,360 that's right and you know life the 561 00:20:07,820 --> 00:20:04,950 origin of life means energy but life 562 00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:07,830 also extant life needs energy too and so 563 00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:09,929 kind of understanding what level of 564 00:20:13,580 --> 00:20:11,940 redox potentials you have in vents and 565 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:13,590 what different energy sources and energy 566 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:14,730 sinks are 567 00:20:18,140 --> 00:20:16,290 there can help you understand what types 568 00:20:19,850 --> 00:20:18,150 of life could be there because life can 569 00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:19,860 use you can use things that are coming 570 00:20:23,539 --> 00:20:21,780 out of the event and fluid it can use 571 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:23,549 things with seawater it can use the 572 00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,110 actual minerals of the chimney itself 573 00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:27,360 just so it depends and understanding 574 00:20:31,580 --> 00:20:29,190 what life can live in what type of 575 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:31,590 system it may be help us predict how we 576 00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:33,290 would look for life on other planets 577 00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:35,640 very cool so all the life we see around 578 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:38,640 us today ultimately depends on sunlight 579 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:40,890 but of course life at the seafloor there 580 00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:42,450 is no sunlight and we think about life 581 00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:45,030 on those icy worlds around you our on 582 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:47,280 Saturn or around Jupiter there's also no 583 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:49,110 sunlight at the seafloor and so the 584 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:50,850 chemistry you're exploring is a source 585 00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:52,770 of energy for potential biology that's 586 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:54,270 down there that's absolutely fascinating 587 00:20:59,120 --> 00:20:56,610 now how do you measure that in real life 588 00:21:02,840 --> 00:20:59,130 suppose we had a mission to go to these 589 00:21:04,730 --> 00:21:02,850 Extra Terrestrial oceans and we could go 590 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:04,740 to the seafloor how would one understand 591 00:21:08,299 --> 00:21:06,090 them and I understand you've been 592 00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,309 recently funded by NASA to develop 593 00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:10,320 search technologies tell us more about 594 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:12,840 that yeah so this is a project called 595 00:21:16,850 --> 00:21:15,000 invader which is the Institute vent 596 00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:16,860 analysis dive bot for EXO biology 597 00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:19,080 research it's led by pedlow so Brown at 598 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:21,960 SETI and I'm the science bi and so this 599 00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:23,730 is this is a project where we're gonna 600 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:26,070 send an underwater laser to event in the 601 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:28,770 Pacific Ocean and if you if you run 602 00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,390 another planet and you had a vent that 603 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:31,679 you wanted to look at I mean even 604 00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:32,850 finding the vent would be a real 605 00:21:36,289 --> 00:21:34,169 challenge right because you don't know 606 00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:36,299 exactly where they are and also there's 607 00:21:40,340 --> 00:21:38,460 not going to be technology to have 608 00:21:42,260 --> 00:21:40,350 immediate decision-making when you're in 609 00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:42,270 that situation so the mission would have 610 00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:44,220 to be able to say is this a good vantage 611 00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:46,110 of study how long should I study it 612 00:21:50,659 --> 00:21:47,880 which types of data should it take for 613 00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:50,669 how long it's cetera and so also you 614 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:52,559 wouldn't really necessarily be able to 615 00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:54,690 take samples from the chimney a lot of 616 00:21:58,100 --> 00:21:56,460 work that's being done in oceanography 617 00:22:00,140 --> 00:21:58,110 you can actually take samples and 618 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:00,150 analyze fluids but if you couldn't do 619 00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:00,570 that 620 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:02,280 how much information could you get if 621 00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:03,690 you were just looking at the chimney 622 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:06,809 from say a few meters away and so the 623 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:08,970 invader project is going to use a laser 624 00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:11,370 a Raman laser and a-- lives to look at 625 00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,500 these chimneys and see can we detect 626 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:15,120 life in this chimney of course we know 627 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:17,010 that there's already life here but can 628 00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:19,049 we detect it with this payload and what 629 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:20,880 information can you get about the 630 00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:23,130 astrology and the habitability of this 631 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:25,470 environment from a standoff payload and 632 00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:26,290 then what 633 00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:28,000 is that compared to what we already know 634 00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:30,820 from things like sampling cool tell us a 635 00:22:35,610 --> 00:22:33,820 bit more about how it lives work so 636 00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:35,620 these these lasers they function in 637 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:37,990 different ways so ellipse tells you what 638 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:39,700 elements are in the sample and then 639 00:22:43,410 --> 00:22:41,530 Arama and will tell you elements and 640 00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:43,420 minerals and molecules and these can 641 00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:45,940 both do for solid and for liquid so 642 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:48,340 we're gonna be testing not just in the 643 00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:50,470 deployment where we we put the laser in 644 00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:52,240 the ocean but also in the lab we'll be 645 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:54,520 testing with lasers using actual event 646 00:22:59,130 --> 00:22:56,410 samples what does what do these look 647 00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:59,140 like and can you find life and hang out 648 00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:01,120 what other types of habitability can you 649 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:02,920 see in these samples so things like what 650 00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:05,290 are the elements present like carbon 651 00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:07,270 phosphorus nitrogen and what minerals 652 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:08,680 are there and are these minerals that 653 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:11,230 can provide energy and so it's gonna be 654 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:13,750 pretty exciting so the point of going to 655 00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:15,850 an actual event in the Pacific Ocean 656 00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:18,580 with the instrument is to look at the 657 00:23:23,580 --> 00:23:22,000 vent using those lasers and using the 658 00:23:25,410 --> 00:23:23,590 technologies you've been describing and 659 00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:25,420 then but also sampling and then 660 00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:27,640 comparing if you what information can 661 00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:29,230 gather just from the laser compared to 662 00:23:33,930 --> 00:23:31,540 what's actually there is that right yeah 663 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:33,940 and you know this is why for these for 664 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:35,650 some of these types of programs it's not 665 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:37,210 just science where you're learning new 666 00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:38,890 information about a site it's also 667 00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:41,320 science operations where you know it's 668 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:43,000 it's the techniques of how do you get 669 00:23:45,690 --> 00:23:44,410 science in the first place and how does 670 00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:45,700 this work there's a lot of 671 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:47,920 decision-making and you know kind of if 672 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:49,450 then if then type of stuff that goes 673 00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:50,890 into how you approach getting 674 00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:53,260 information from a site especially when 675 00:23:57,870 --> 00:23:54,880 you're limited on things like power or 676 00:24:00,150 --> 00:23:57,880 data or a number of spectra or you know 677 00:24:02,730 --> 00:24:00,160 resolution and things like that and so 678 00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:02,740 just understanding questions like if 679 00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:04,540 even if you have a perfect map of the 680 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:06,700 chimney you know how often do you need 681 00:24:11,130 --> 00:24:08,110 that map in order to tell how it's 682 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:11,140 changing or if you have let's say seven 683 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:12,730 points that you can take spectra from 684 00:24:16,350 --> 00:24:14,350 where would you place those in order to 685 00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:16,360 understand if there's a mineral present 686 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:18,760 or not and things like that you can kind 687 00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:20,290 of make predictions and test this in the 688 00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:21,940 lab and then try to prepare or what this 689 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:24,400 might be like on a mission that's so 690 00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,090 cool and so I'm just curious about 691 00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:30,640 whether you're you're training in 692 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:32,830 theater you know way back when in 693 00:24:37,860 --> 00:24:36,130 undergrad is coming back to you now does 694 00:24:39,869 --> 00:24:37,870 it help you in your in your in your 695 00:24:42,089 --> 00:24:39,879 science you know it's 696 00:24:45,569 --> 00:24:42,099 because it actually does I never thought 697 00:24:47,729 --> 00:24:45,579 it would but I mean first of all I had 698 00:24:49,469 --> 00:24:47,739 no idea when I was majoring in astronomy 699 00:24:51,569 --> 00:24:49,479 that having a being a scientist as a 700 00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:51,579 career was so dependent on public 701 00:24:55,769 --> 00:24:53,769 speaking and also on kind of the arts 702 00:24:58,229 --> 00:24:55,779 you know like graphic design and giving 703 00:25:00,779 --> 00:24:58,239 good presentations and all of that stuff 704 00:25:03,749 --> 00:25:00,789 is so important and had no idea and so 705 00:25:05,609 --> 00:25:03,759 when I was in the I think in high school 706 00:25:07,439 --> 00:25:05,619 actually took acting class a couple 707 00:25:09,749 --> 00:25:07,449 times and then in college I took some 708 00:25:11,879 --> 00:25:09,759 more acting class and I was never I was 709 00:25:14,339 --> 00:25:11,889 not an actor in theatre I was mostly 710 00:25:15,869 --> 00:25:14,349 doing the set design and costumes so I 711 00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,879 was really into all that but it's about 712 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:18,159 creating a world and you know painting 713 00:25:22,829 --> 00:25:20,529 and sewing and stuff like that but also 714 00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:22,839 when you're doing theater for set design 715 00:25:26,639 --> 00:25:24,609 for example it's a lot of project 716 00:25:28,739 --> 00:25:26,649 management so you have a budget and you 717 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:28,749 have materials and you have you know you 718 00:25:32,249 --> 00:25:30,609 have assets things like power tools and 719 00:25:33,809 --> 00:25:32,259 like your stock of paints and woods and 720 00:25:35,489 --> 00:25:33,819 whatnot and you have to manage your 721 00:25:37,619 --> 00:25:35,499 supplies and your budget and your 722 00:25:39,149 --> 00:25:37,629 personnel and your schedule and it turns 723 00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:39,159 out that science is a lot like that 724 00:25:43,199 --> 00:25:41,440 especially in chemistry because when you 725 00:25:44,669 --> 00:25:43,209 run a lab group you have a budget and 726 00:25:46,649 --> 00:25:44,679 you have supplies and you have people 727 00:25:48,419 --> 00:25:46,659 and you have deadlines and you have to 728 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:48,429 enact these big projects or you don't 729 00:25:52,409 --> 00:25:49,690 know what the outcomes gonna quite be 730 00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:52,419 and so it turned out product management 731 00:25:58,049 --> 00:25:54,609 it was an excellent skill to learn for 732 00:26:00,629 --> 00:25:58,059 this career yeah I wonder sometimes why 733 00:26:02,669 --> 00:26:00,639 the fundamentals of business is not 734 00:26:04,829 --> 00:26:02,679 taught as part of graduate school to 735 00:26:06,419 --> 00:26:04,839 become a PI you know it seems like it's 736 00:26:08,669 --> 00:26:06,429 really useful skills to know how to 737 00:26:11,069 --> 00:26:08,679 create a Gantt chart and and find out 738 00:26:13,289 --> 00:26:11,079 where your where your your key 739 00:26:15,959 --> 00:26:13,299 milestones are that's important skills 740 00:26:17,369 --> 00:26:15,969 to be able to put together so anyways if 741 00:26:18,809 --> 00:26:17,379 those of you who are watching if you 742 00:26:20,309 --> 00:26:18,819 have any questions for dr. bard we're 743 00:26:21,930 --> 00:26:20,319 gonna open up for questions very soon 744 00:26:23,819 --> 00:26:21,940 don't forget to ask your questions right 745 00:26:26,369 --> 00:26:23,829 on this on the Signet or chat if you're 746 00:26:28,589 --> 00:26:26,379 watching on según or on Signet if you're 747 00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:28,599 on twitter please use hashtag ask a 748 00:26:33,749 --> 00:26:30,849 survey or on facebook right there in the 749 00:26:36,569 --> 00:26:33,759 in the comments down below you have a 750 00:26:38,129 --> 00:26:36,579 slew of hobbies and one of them that I 751 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:38,139 find particularly fascinating is that 752 00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:40,690 you are you're an eclipse chaser tell us 753 00:26:45,449 --> 00:26:43,089 more about that well I've only just 754 00:26:47,249 --> 00:26:45,459 started this because the first Eclipse 755 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,259 the first total eclipse in my lifetime 756 00:26:51,540 --> 00:26:48,880 in the US was 757 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:51,550 one in 2017 so this started in Oregon 758 00:26:55,860 --> 00:26:53,410 that went all the way across the US and 759 00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,870 so I've never seen a total eclipse and I 760 00:26:59,880 --> 00:26:58,000 really wanted to so I went to Oregon 761 00:27:02,100 --> 00:26:59,890 with my husband and we went to Madras 762 00:27:04,410 --> 00:27:02,110 Oregon where there was this big kind of 763 00:27:06,450 --> 00:27:04,420 camping event in a field and so we 764 00:27:08,430 --> 00:27:06,460 camped for a couple days and then the 765 00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:08,440 Eclipse was around noon and so it was 766 00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:10,390 right overhead in the sky and it was 767 00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:12,550 really amazing and so I thought well I'm 768 00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:14,230 really glad I you know took the effort 769 00:27:17,910 --> 00:27:16,420 to go to exactly where totality was and 770 00:27:20,910 --> 00:27:17,920 I have to see this again because it's 771 00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:20,920 just so awesome and so then in 2019 this 772 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:22,990 year in the summer we went to Chile with 773 00:27:27,060 --> 00:27:24,970 some friends and we saw the Eclipse in 774 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:27,070 la serena chile this one was actually 775 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:28,810 around 4:00 p.m. and it was over the 776 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:30,250 ocean so that was a totally different 777 00:27:34,650 --> 00:27:32,890 thing and it was amazing and so i you 778 00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:34,660 know it's hard to get the money and the 779 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:35,800 time to go to a lot of these because 780 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:37,450 they're in remote locations but i do 781 00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:39,490 intend to try to go to as many as i can 782 00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:42,640 i was not too far away from you in 783 00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:44,920 oregon for the 2017 eclipse and it was 784 00:27:48,510 --> 00:27:46,270 just it's it's almost a spiritual 785 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:48,520 experience to see the moon cover the Sun 786 00:27:56,790 --> 00:27:51,910 it's just very impressive so you're also 787 00:27:57,930 --> 00:27:56,800 an amateur winemaker yeah I did some of 788 00:28:00,150 --> 00:27:57,940 that you know my husband and I had made 789 00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:00,160 wine for a couple years and it was 790 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:01,600 pretty fun it's like having you know 791 00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:03,310 chemistry lab here and your house and 792 00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:05,110 you can you can make some wine and it 793 00:28:08,580 --> 00:28:06,940 was fun to see the fermentation 794 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:08,590 occurring so we did that for a couple 795 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:10,210 years and we haven't done it in a long 796 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:12,010 time because when you make wine you get 797 00:28:17,610 --> 00:28:14,110 so much wine and it's just it's too much 798 00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:17,620 and plus you know there's only time for 799 00:28:21,810 --> 00:28:20,470 a few hobbies at once anyway so we 800 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:21,820 haven't done that in a while but it was 801 00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:25,210 a lot of fun very cool very cool so and 802 00:28:28,770 --> 00:28:27,190 so I guess we can we can open it up for 803 00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:28,780 questions now Lori this is fascinating 804 00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:30,100 conversation there's so many more 805 00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:32,380 questions I have but part of the beauty 806 00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:33,910 of this program is to let our viewers 807 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:36,790 ask you questions and so the first 808 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:39,910 question is by dr. Jim Paz who tweets as 809 00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:43,330 at Astro sociology and he asks I know 810 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:44,980 that you value our reach and education 811 00:28:48,990 --> 00:28:47,050 as such what is your opinion about what 812 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:49,000 the social sciences and humanities can 813 00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:51,010 add to the astrobiology bill search for 814 00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:53,470 extraterrestrial life oh that's a good 815 00:28:56,790 --> 00:28:54,070 question 816 00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:56,800 so let's see I do value outreach a lot 817 00:29:00,690 --> 00:28:58,210 and one of the things I really enjoy 818 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:00,700 doing is in addition to the science 819 00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:02,330 itself is trying to bring 820 00:29:05,889 --> 00:29:04,070 our people in the science and trying to 821 00:29:06,970 --> 00:29:05,899 kind of break down barriers for for 822 00:29:09,639 --> 00:29:06,980 different types of people to be 823 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:09,649 participating in NASA research and so I 824 00:29:13,930 --> 00:29:11,570 mean one of the most important things I 825 00:29:16,269 --> 00:29:13,940 think Social Sciences can contribute is 826 00:29:17,889 --> 00:29:16,279 by understanding how you know how people 827 00:29:19,870 --> 00:29:17,899 function in groups and how teams work 828 00:29:21,399 --> 00:29:19,880 and how we can best improve say 829 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:21,409 diversity and inclusion in our 830 00:29:25,299 --> 00:29:23,330 Institute's and in our product teams and 831 00:29:26,529 --> 00:29:25,309 so on and it's not something that we're 832 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:26,539 ever trained in you know in science 833 00:29:30,639 --> 00:29:28,850 let's understand like how do you how do 834 00:29:32,620 --> 00:29:30,649 you deal with different types of people 835 00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:32,630 and how do you manage a group and how do 836 00:29:37,090 --> 00:29:34,700 you make sure that it's fair inclusive 837 00:29:38,889 --> 00:29:37,100 and you know so this is all stuff where 838 00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:38,899 we look to I think the social scientists 839 00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:40,700 to give us tips about how best to 840 00:29:44,259 --> 00:29:42,169 proceed but I think a lot of 841 00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:44,269 astrobiologists care about this but we 842 00:29:49,690 --> 00:29:45,679 don't often know what techniques to 843 00:29:51,549 --> 00:29:49,700 apply the great answer thank you next 844 00:29:53,919 --> 00:29:51,559 question is by Elizabeth Hudson who 845 00:29:57,159 --> 00:29:53,929 tweets as asked Astro boodikka 846 00:29:59,409 --> 00:29:57,169 and she asks your research is exactly 847 00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:59,419 what I want to do what appeal sets 848 00:30:03,220 --> 00:30:01,279 should I work on that would be most 849 00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:03,230 helpful to a potential mentor doing this 850 00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:06,950 or similar research well let's see you 851 00:30:11,230 --> 00:30:09,049 know I would say of course science like 852 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:11,240 learning about geology astronomy and 853 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:11,960 oceanography 854 00:30:16,509 --> 00:30:14,450 of course but also I just think learning 855 00:30:18,129 --> 00:30:16,519 how to be brave and try new things is 856 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:18,139 important because that's kind of a skill 857 00:30:22,450 --> 00:30:20,809 too and you know doing different types 858 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:22,460 of research even if it's not something 859 00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:25,970 than before but also if you want to be a 860 00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:28,399 science PI and do it leading a team and 861 00:30:31,629 --> 00:30:29,929 so forth understanding how to be a 862 00:30:33,490 --> 00:30:31,639 leader and getting opportunities to 863 00:30:35,769 --> 00:30:33,500 practice that is very important even if 864 00:30:37,899 --> 00:30:35,779 it's not for work or for school but just 865 00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:37,909 having experience and how to lead and 866 00:30:40,690 --> 00:30:39,769 how to you know manage big projects and 867 00:30:43,899 --> 00:30:40,700 things like that I think it's very 868 00:30:45,549 --> 00:30:43,909 important yeah the opportunities to push 869 00:30:46,930 --> 00:30:45,559 yourself beyond your comfort zone is 870 00:30:48,669 --> 00:30:46,940 something that all of you who are early 871 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:48,679 in your career should take advantage of 872 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:51,130 so great point Lori I'm glad you made it 873 00:30:57,070 --> 00:30:55,250 Gaurav Yadav on stage Annette asks which 874 00:30:58,840 --> 00:30:57,080 type of hydrothermal vents seems to be 875 00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,850 the most promising to predict the origin 876 00:31:03,879 --> 00:31:00,559 of life where there's a deep-sea or 877 00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:03,889 terrestrial hot spring and why oh well I 878 00:31:07,450 --> 00:31:05,600 mean it's not just those two types right 879 00:31:09,460 --> 00:31:07,460 so each you know for example deep-sea 880 00:31:11,470 --> 00:31:09,470 vents have many different types and so I 881 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:11,480 don't think that the point is whether 882 00:31:14,350 --> 00:31:12,650 it's on land or in the 883 00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:14,360 it's about what chemistry does it have 884 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:16,580 and so you could have for example event 885 00:31:19,390 --> 00:31:18,170 that's kind of off the shore that's near 886 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:19,400 the surface you could have one on the 887 00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:21,530 surface I think that the ones most 888 00:31:25,420 --> 00:31:23,120 likely for some reactions with the 889 00:31:27,790 --> 00:31:25,430 alkaline so that's a higher pH event and 890 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:27,800 not too hot so not ones that are so 891 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:29,450 superheated like hundreds of degrees 892 00:31:34,180 --> 00:31:31,610 like the ones that the black smokers for 893 00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:34,190 example but different chemistry is the 894 00:31:37,150 --> 00:31:35,780 important thing and so just because it's 895 00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:37,160 a hot spring doesn't mean it's going to 896 00:31:40,150 --> 00:31:38,750 have the right chemistry you might have 897 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:40,160 different chemistry's and the same is 898 00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:42,410 true for the deep-sea vents so I would 899 00:31:52,210 --> 00:31:50,320 Sudeep B swats on say Gannett asks were 900 00:31:53,860 --> 00:31:52,220 terrestrial hot springs in prebiotic 901 00:31:55,270 --> 00:31:53,870 times the same is higher thermal vents 902 00:31:59,170 --> 00:31:55,280 today when it comes to the origin of 903 00:32:02,200 --> 00:31:59,180 molecules not necessarily so there were 904 00:32:04,330 --> 00:32:02,210 similarities but a lot a lot would 905 00:32:05,530 --> 00:32:04,340 depend on the types of rocks so for 906 00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:05,540 Earth you know that may have been 907 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:07,220 similar but for other planets the types 908 00:32:10,210 --> 00:32:08,810 of rock that you're circulating water 909 00:32:12,010 --> 00:32:10,220 through could be very different so that 910 00:32:13,780 --> 00:32:12,020 could lead to differences but also the 911 00:32:15,370 --> 00:32:13,790 ocean on early Earth is very different 912 00:32:17,380 --> 00:32:15,380 and one of the important thing is is 913 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:17,390 that it didn't have oxygen so when you 914 00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:19,010 don't have oxygen in the ocean you can 915 00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:20,480 have a lot more dissolved metals like 916 00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:22,910 iron nickel and so forth and that leads 917 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:24,590 to a different type of mineral being 918 00:32:28,780 --> 00:32:27,170 precipitated so that's one main thing is 919 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:28,790 that you get you get a lot of new types 920 00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:30,770 of reactive minerals that are possible 921 00:32:34,660 --> 00:32:32,900 when you don't have oxygen so that's one 922 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:34,670 of the main differences I think that 923 00:32:42,940 --> 00:32:39,610 affected interesting yep 924 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:42,950 sir hot chef Jen if I pronounced that 925 00:32:46,690 --> 00:32:44,990 properly on say Gannett ask a question 926 00:32:49,030 --> 00:32:46,700 it's very similar to some of we 927 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:49,040 discussed before but he focuses he or 928 00:32:53,890 --> 00:32:51,850 she focuses on kind of more particular 929 00:32:56,170 --> 00:32:53,900 hypothesis for the origin of life and 930 00:32:58,390 --> 00:32:56,180 and you'll recognize it in a second so 931 00:33:00,550 --> 00:32:58,400 he or she asks the origin of life on 932 00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:00,560 Earth is attributed by a some two 933 00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:02,510 special alkaline vents 934 00:33:06,190 --> 00:33:03,950 can you explain what kind of specific 935 00:33:08,530 --> 00:33:06,200 geochemistry alkaline vents have that 936 00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:08,540 could result there urgent of life on 937 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:11,240 Earth and why do black smokers are not 938 00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:14,450 thought to be involved yeah so the 939 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:16,760 alkaline vents are there they're very 940 00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:19,250 interesting because they if you assume 941 00:33:22,580 --> 00:33:20,220 that the early Earth 942 00:33:23,779 --> 00:33:22,590 has you know some co2 dissolves in it 943 00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:23,789 which it would have because the 944 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:26,100 atmosphere had more co2 and the ocean is 945 00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:27,450 a little more acidic than it is today 946 00:33:31,399 --> 00:33:29,700 and so the event itself is producing 947 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:31,409 alkaline fluids so you have a different 948 00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:33,690 type of pH gradient and if you compare 949 00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:35,580 that to a black smoker the black smoker 950 00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:37,440 is acidic usually and so that would be 951 00:33:41,419 --> 00:33:39,809 not quite the right pH gradient so the 952 00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:41,429 alkaline vent gives you a pH gradient 953 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:43,769 that is similar to life and it's thought 954 00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:45,210 to have driven some origin of life 955 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:48,600 processes but also the alkaline vent has 956 00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:50,250 a temperature that's pretty mild so 957 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:51,990 you're not you're not superheated in 958 00:33:56,779 --> 00:33:53,850 destroying organic molecules it's around 959 00:33:58,340 --> 00:33:56,789 like 50 to 90 degrees Celsius which is a 960 00:34:00,919 --> 00:33:58,350 good temperature for a lot of reactions 961 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:00,929 to occur so the pH gradient temperature 962 00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:02,730 if it's not too hot and also the types 963 00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:04,590 of minerals that are in that vent that 964 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:07,980 are very reactive and interesting thank 965 00:34:11,869 --> 00:34:10,050 you yes again it's those gradients and 966 00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:11,879 chemistry that are so important to 967 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:13,950 jumpstart the chemistry that can sustain 968 00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:15,450 life or perhaps create the molecules 969 00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:19,260 that can begin life so fascinating 970 00:34:26,359 --> 00:34:23,550 fascinating science again great question 971 00:34:29,230 --> 00:34:26,369 what are the odds of abiogenesis still 972 00:34:32,899 --> 00:34:29,240 occurring today or is our so saturated 973 00:34:35,180 --> 00:34:32,909 right so saturated with life that it 974 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:35,190 simply isn't necessary or does earth no 975 00:34:39,379 --> 00:34:36,450 longer have the conditions for 976 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:39,389 abiogenesis that's a great one it's I 977 00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:41,970 think about this a lot and so you know 978 00:34:46,309 --> 00:34:44,730 abiogenesis it so there's two things one 979 00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,319 is that early Earth environments are 980 00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:48,240 different and so you need some of that 981 00:34:51,770 --> 00:34:49,800 difference in order for origin of life 982 00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:51,780 to occur so things like having an ocean 983 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:54,000 that's anoxic and rich and iron and 984 00:34:57,260 --> 00:34:54,810 things like that 985 00:34:58,730 --> 00:34:57,270 but also even if you assume that maybe 986 00:35:00,650 --> 00:34:58,740 some origin of life stuff could happen 987 00:35:03,140 --> 00:35:00,660 today the problem is that life would 988 00:35:05,450 --> 00:35:03,150 just eat it because life is dominant on 989 00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:05,460 every area of this planet now it's a 990 00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:07,920 complete biosphere right and so if you 991 00:35:11,690 --> 00:35:09,900 had any kind of abiotic thing happening 992 00:35:13,339 --> 00:35:11,700 it would be vastly out competed by life 993 00:35:15,020 --> 00:35:13,349 and so you don't really have the 994 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:15,030 opportunity anymore for this kind of 995 00:35:18,770 --> 00:35:17,730 complexity to emerge by itself because 996 00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:18,780 life was there and it's way more 997 00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:20,609 advanced and it will just consume it and 998 00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,020 so when we look for life elsewhere 999 00:35:25,609 --> 00:35:23,760 actually this is one of the things is 1000 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:25,619 that if you didn't have an entire 1001 00:35:29,839 --> 00:35:27,810 biosphere at this point you might have 1002 00:35:32,430 --> 00:35:29,849 life maybe in certain you know small 1003 00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:32,440 areas but maybe if you had origin of 1004 00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:34,089 processes that never quite made it to 1005 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:36,190 life you might see more complex stuff 1006 00:35:39,870 --> 00:35:37,690 than you see on earth in an abiotic 1007 00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,880 sense so we don't really know so yeah 1008 00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:41,680 it's a great question and I think the 1009 00:35:45,660 --> 00:35:43,630 presence of life on earth makes Earth 1010 00:35:47,849 --> 00:35:45,670 not a great analog for understanding a 1011 00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:47,859 biotic possibilities because they're so 1012 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:50,680 suppressed at this point totally fully 1013 00:35:55,410 --> 00:35:53,170 great question Elizabeth thank you next 1014 00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:55,420 question is by a spooky tardigrade who 1015 00:36:00,450 --> 00:35:58,930 tweets as at just guelda and they ask 1016 00:36:02,750 --> 00:36:00,460 what do you advise for getting more 1017 00:36:06,030 --> 00:36:02,760 young students involved in astrobiology 1018 00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:06,040 um well I think that it's it would be 1019 00:36:09,930 --> 00:36:08,020 really important for the students to 1020 00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:09,940 kind of seek out mentors in the young 1021 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:11,920 science community so people even in you 1022 00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:13,930 know grad students but also postdocs and 1023 00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:16,270 early career scientists because we are 1024 00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:17,950 often very happy to talk about our work 1025 00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:19,839 and we want to help and all that but 1026 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:21,940 also participating in events is a lot of 1027 00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:23,530 different depending on where you are in 1028 00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:25,240 the world what type of science you like 1029 00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:26,950 there's a lot of different events and 1030 00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:28,780 programs that you can participate in 1031 00:36:32,339 --> 00:36:30,310 that will get you more experience in 1032 00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:32,349 this area and then for scientists who 1033 00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:33,849 want to bring young scientists in I 1034 00:36:37,770 --> 00:36:35,950 think it's important to you know not 1035 00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:37,780 just wait for people to come to you but 1036 00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:39,609 actually try to recruit so going out to 1037 00:36:42,660 --> 00:36:40,960 schools and saying you know here is 1038 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:42,670 research and it's cool and you should 1039 00:36:46,319 --> 00:36:44,650 join it and here I have this internships 1040 00:36:48,210 --> 00:36:46,329 at JPL or at NASA and you should apply 1041 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:48,220 for them and so I think with kind of 1042 00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:50,290 both ends doing things then we can we 1043 00:36:54,540 --> 00:36:52,030 can establish a lot more presence of 1044 00:36:56,339 --> 00:36:54,550 people in science could you tell us a 1045 00:36:58,290 --> 00:36:56,349 little bit Laurie how you benefited from 1046 00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,300 mentors and what you're doing today - I 1047 00:37:01,470 --> 00:36:59,920 know your lab is full of early career 1048 00:37:03,839 --> 00:37:01,480 people and I want to make sure you talk 1049 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:03,849 about that because that's important yeah 1050 00:37:07,170 --> 00:37:05,770 I think mentors are really important 1051 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:07,180 they've been important for me I've had 1052 00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:08,710 various ones from you know different 1053 00:37:13,319 --> 00:37:11,710 stages of my career and it's important 1054 00:37:15,390 --> 00:37:13,329 to have different types of mentors even 1055 00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,400 you know for just one person you need 1056 00:37:19,859 --> 00:37:17,200 more than one mentor you have mentors 1057 00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:19,869 who are let's say your PhD advisor you 1058 00:37:22,890 --> 00:37:21,280 can advise you and how your science is 1059 00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:22,900 going but you may also have mentors that 1060 00:37:27,630 --> 00:37:25,390 are sort of general career mentors or if 1061 00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:27,640 you have a certain interest like if you 1062 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:29,260 want to work for NASA in particular you 1063 00:37:32,220 --> 00:37:30,730 might want to have a mentor that works 1064 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:32,230 for NASA or know something about that 1065 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:35,050 and so I have I have cultivated 1066 00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:36,490 different mentors throughout my career 1067 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:38,440 and I continue to do so and it's good to 1068 00:37:41,970 --> 00:37:40,270 have people who are both you know much 1069 00:37:43,710 --> 00:37:41,980 older than you or more advanced who know 1070 00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:43,720 about like the far future but also 1071 00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:45,369 people who are just a few years ahead 1072 00:37:47,789 --> 00:37:45,910 who 1073 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:47,799 sort of advise you on your next steps 1074 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:50,650 and so forth and so I also am interested 1075 00:37:54,750 --> 00:37:52,930 in being a mentor so I mentor various 1076 00:37:57,390 --> 00:37:54,760 students and postdocs in my group and 1077 00:37:59,309 --> 00:37:57,400 it's a lot of early career people and I 1078 00:38:01,380 --> 00:37:59,319 find it really fulfilling it's fun to 1079 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:01,390 help other people find the science and 1080 00:38:04,770 --> 00:38:03,490 the career they want and try to use my 1081 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:04,780 knowledge to help them get where they 1082 00:38:08,789 --> 00:38:07,030 want to be absolutely and I agree with 1083 00:38:10,319 --> 00:38:08,799 you it was the fulfilling part that's 1084 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:10,329 one of my favorite aspects of being a 1085 00:38:15,809 --> 00:38:13,510 scientist is to take early careers bring 1086 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:15,819 them through your scientific process and 1087 00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:17,530 then give them wings for them to do 1088 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:18,910 science by themselves it's very 1089 00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:21,250 rewarding we're a growing field in that 1090 00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:24,640 sense Satish Chandra on Facebook asks 1091 00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:27,150 how can astrobiology help with human 1092 00:38:31,890 --> 00:38:31,390 colonization of other planets that's a 1093 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:31,900 good one 1094 00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,450 so in a lot of ways it depends on the 1095 00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:36,640 planet of course and what exactly people 1096 00:38:41,789 --> 00:38:39,369 want to do but understanding you know 1097 00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:41,799 how to look for life elsewhere it's very 1098 00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:43,510 important and also because you want to 1099 00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:44,950 know I think one of the things for 1100 00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:47,020 colonization is we want to know how life 1101 00:38:51,089 --> 00:38:49,119 could affect a planet and we have a good 1102 00:38:52,799 --> 00:38:51,099 example of that here on earth have all 1103 00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,809 life over the four billion years has 1104 00:38:56,190 --> 00:38:54,880 really affected this planet and if 1105 00:38:57,779 --> 00:38:56,200 you're going to go to another planet how 1106 00:38:59,370 --> 00:38:57,789 might you affect that planet but how 1107 00:39:01,170 --> 00:38:59,380 might life have already affected it and 1108 00:39:02,849 --> 00:39:01,180 so on and I think it would also be 1109 00:39:04,620 --> 00:39:02,859 important too you know we have to be 1110 00:39:07,710 --> 00:39:04,630 careful if we go to another planet as 1111 00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:07,720 humans to not destroy or mess up any 1112 00:39:11,279 --> 00:39:09,220 other stuff that might be there that we 1113 00:39:12,930 --> 00:39:11,289 still wanted to study so you know 1114 00:39:15,630 --> 00:39:12,940 there's a lot of thoughts about the 1115 00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:15,640 preservation and ethical approaches to 1116 00:39:21,029 --> 00:39:18,910 this type of thing and that's as a group 1117 00:39:23,730 --> 00:39:21,039 for planetary protection for that exact 1118 00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:23,740 reason so yes we should explore space 1119 00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:25,900 but we should explore it respectfully 1120 00:39:30,779 --> 00:39:28,569 towards others other species whether 1121 00:39:34,049 --> 00:39:30,789 they be microbes are potentially in in 1122 00:39:37,170 --> 00:39:34,059 their own planets Ashish not on Twitter 1123 00:39:39,029 --> 00:39:37,180 asks if there are certain organisms we 1124 00:39:41,579 --> 00:39:39,039 can which can derive energy from the 1125 00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,589 planet itself but not the nearby star I 1126 00:39:45,329 --> 00:39:43,599 guess the question is asking can we talk 1127 00:39:47,579 --> 00:39:45,339 about habitable zones in the absence of 1128 00:39:50,190 --> 00:39:47,589 stars yeah well it goes beyond I think 1129 00:39:52,109 --> 00:39:50,200 distance from the star and so you know 1130 00:39:54,569 --> 00:39:52,119 the original definition was about 1131 00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:54,579 surface water being liquid on the planet 1132 00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:54,960 and 1133 00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:57,900 has to do with how far you are from the 1134 00:40:01,970 --> 00:40:00,240 Sun but yeah if you had to say life on 1135 00:40:04,099 --> 00:40:01,980 Europa then a habitable zone would 1136 00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:04,109 extend out to Jupiter and so as we 1137 00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:06,180 understand more about how life can be 1138 00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:08,550 how life can exist on planets and how 1139 00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:10,440 where it might emerge then the habitable 1140 00:40:15,620 --> 00:40:12,420 zone to be really anywhere where that is 1141 00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,630 possible so do you think water is an 1142 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:17,520 important aspect for life or could they 1143 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:20,730 be other solvents it's possible there 1144 00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:22,650 could be other solvents I focus on water 1145 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:24,390 in my work but there's lots of people 1146 00:40:28,490 --> 00:40:26,250 who discuss you know different organic 1147 00:40:30,260 --> 00:40:28,500 solvents and things like that so it's 1148 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:30,270 always possible and there's a lot of 1149 00:40:34,370 --> 00:40:32,210 really interesting work in that area 1150 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:34,380 it's fascinating to think about life 1151 00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:36,450 that's so different than than what we 1152 00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:37,800 know about terrestrial life I even 1153 00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:39,839 wonder if we would even recognize it if 1154 00:40:47,390 --> 00:40:44,400 we saw the next question is by Ahmad 1155 00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:47,400 Aslam Khan on say Gannett who asks are 1156 00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:49,500 there any technical guides or manuals to 1157 00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:51,119 take use of data coming out from 1158 00:40:57,140 --> 00:40:54,660 missions like Cassini like the Rovers in 1159 00:40:59,630 --> 00:40:57,150 curiosity etc especially how to mine the 1160 00:41:03,230 --> 00:40:59,640 spectroscopic data and from where one 1161 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:03,240 can mine this data in other words is 1162 00:41:09,470 --> 00:41:06,650 there ways we can use existing plant 1163 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:09,480 spacecraft observations download them to 1164 00:41:14,810 --> 00:41:11,490 our computers and analyze the data 1165 00:41:16,579 --> 00:41:14,820 ourselves oh yeah so I don't actually 1166 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:16,589 work on this personally so I'm not the 1167 00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,450 best person to ask but there's a 1168 00:41:23,089 --> 00:41:20,640 planetary data system where data is 1169 00:41:25,730 --> 00:41:23,099 posted and the NASA data from missions 1170 00:41:28,099 --> 00:41:25,740 is available mostly and so some of it is 1171 00:41:29,660 --> 00:41:28,109 easier to use than others and you know 1172 00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:29,670 if you have particular questions about a 1173 00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:31,680 certain data type that and it's good to 1174 00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:33,390 contact people who work on that on that 1175 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:35,310 type of a media instrument or that type 1176 00:41:40,210 --> 00:41:37,650 of data but yeah generally there it is 1177 00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:40,220 possible for people to analyze these 1178 00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,020 yeah and the database is called PDS 1179 00:41:49,609 --> 00:41:45,119 planetary data system in fact there is a 1180 00:41:51,980 --> 00:41:49,619 middle school in California who were 1181 00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:51,990 looking at the photos coming back from 1182 00:41:59,300 --> 00:41:55,859 the Mars orbiters and they found a lava 1183 00:42:01,099 --> 00:41:59,310 cave a lava tube independent from all 1184 00:42:03,230 --> 00:42:01,109 the scientists they are middle schoolers 1185 00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:03,240 who found a new job feature on Mars 1186 00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:04,560 which is really cool so just to show 1187 00:42:07,330 --> 00:42:06,480 that anybody can download this data 1188 00:42:08,830 --> 00:42:07,340 coming back from 1189 00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:08,840 spacecraft and NASA makes a big effort 1190 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:11,180 to make that available and potentially 1191 00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:13,610 make interesting discoveries the next 1192 00:42:18,850 --> 00:42:15,950 question is by Julie Ann Annie Hall on 1193 00:42:21,580 --> 00:42:18,860 Twitter who asks so excited to see you 1194 00:42:23,590 --> 00:42:21,590 on Aspen astrobiologist dr. de Mer 1195 00:42:25,630 --> 00:42:23,600 mentioned in last month's episode that 1196 00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:25,640 he was speaking with you about wet/dry 1197 00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:28,400 cycles do you think they are necessary 1198 00:42:34,270 --> 00:42:31,780 for origins how does this cycling work 1199 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:34,280 yes so the reason I have talked about 1200 00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:37,010 this before and wet/dry cycles are 1201 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:38,720 important for some chemistry because 1202 00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:40,610 they can dehydrate things so the removal 1203 00:42:46,270 --> 00:42:43,790 of water a formation of longer molecules 1204 00:42:47,890 --> 00:42:46,280 that are important and so wet/dry cycles 1205 00:42:49,630 --> 00:42:47,900 can do that you may also have 1206 00:42:51,490 --> 00:42:49,640 possibilities to make that chemistry 1207 00:42:53,290 --> 00:42:51,500 occur that are not literally drying out 1208 00:42:55,690 --> 00:42:53,300 and wetting things so for example if you 1209 00:42:57,850 --> 00:42:55,700 cycle between low water activity and 1210 00:43:00,070 --> 00:42:57,860 high water activity or say temperature 1211 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:00,080 could do this so I think that I don't 1212 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:01,850 know that if it's necessary or not but 1213 00:43:05,020 --> 00:43:03,290 it certainly does promote certain 1214 00:43:08,130 --> 00:43:05,030 reactions and so it is something that we 1215 00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:08,140 work on too so it's one of many 1216 00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:10,670 processes that can generate the 1217 00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:18,700 sarah.hatton asks again a great question 1218 00:43:22,510 --> 00:43:20,990 can we infer that in the early Earth you 1219 00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:22,520 did a higher inner temperature that 1220 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:24,590 eruptions and mid-oceanic ridges were 1221 00:43:28,780 --> 00:43:27,290 ultramafic rather than assaulting a low 1222 00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:28,790 and weather alkaline vents were more 1223 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:30,200 dominant than black smokers I think you 1224 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:32,690 addressed this a little bit so the 1225 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:34,850 question is really focusing on the the 1226 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:36,410 higher temperature of early Earth and 1227 00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:38,090 and there's potentially two different 1228 00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:39,560 rocks erupted and how that could have 1229 00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,420 affected the chemistry of Springs of 1230 00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:44,480 events yeah I'm not actually an expert 1231 00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:47,390 on that particular thing so but I yeah 1232 00:43:49,810 --> 00:43:48,590 there would have been alkaline vents on 1233 00:43:51,730 --> 00:43:49,820 the early earth and there probably would 1234 00:43:53,140 --> 00:43:51,740 have also been black smokers it's a huge 1235 00:43:55,090 --> 00:43:53,150 planet right and so there was a lot of 1236 00:43:56,530 --> 00:43:55,100 different things and so I think that 1237 00:43:58,930 --> 00:43:56,540 even depending on which environment 1238 00:44:00,100 --> 00:43:58,940 people think is interesting and all of 1239 00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:00,110 these actually produce interesting 1240 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:02,390 chemistry it's not just one type of vent 1241 00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:04,610 that does you know organic chemistry for 1242 00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,560 example and so I think that you would 1243 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:08,240 have had a lot of different types and 1244 00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:10,610 quite a prevalence of alkaline vents and 1245 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:13,280 early Earth I think ultimately four 1246 00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:14,510 rocks are interesting as well because 1247 00:44:20,359 --> 00:44:17,540 the the water rock reaction produces 1248 00:44:22,489 --> 00:44:20,369 more hydrogen than the water aqua 1249 00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:22,499 the Crocs would be and hydrogen's can be 1250 00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:24,390 a fundamental food source for biology so 1251 00:44:28,789 --> 00:44:25,740 that could be interesting as well kind 1252 00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:28,799 of to feed the early metabolisms on on 1253 00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:29,609 ancient earth 1254 00:44:36,289 --> 00:44:34,230 this is thought Tom Caruso hi Tom asks 1255 00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:36,299 on Facebook can you explain how the 1256 00:44:40,370 --> 00:44:38,609 conditions for life formation in your in 1257 00:44:44,420 --> 00:44:40,380 your studies connect to the conditions 1258 00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:44,430 and icy worlds sure so you know the 1259 00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:46,740 conditions that we study are mainly for 1260 00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:48,180 the formation of simple organic 1261 00:44:54,109 --> 00:44:51,089 molecules Neel system driven by specific 1262 00:44:56,269 --> 00:44:54,119 minerals and so we are looking at for 1263 00:44:57,980 --> 00:44:56,279 example an alkali and hydrothermal fluid 1264 00:44:59,749 --> 00:44:57,990 and then an ocean that's more acidic 1265 00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:59,759 with iron in it usually and sometimes we 1266 00:45:04,279 --> 00:45:02,099 do variations on that and so this is not 1267 00:45:05,989 --> 00:45:04,289 most similar to the types of events that 1268 00:45:08,089 --> 00:45:05,999 people talk about for its elegance for 1269 00:45:09,380 --> 00:45:08,099 example so they there's evidence of 1270 00:45:11,749 --> 00:45:09,390 vents on Enceladus though it's not 1271 00:45:13,609 --> 00:45:11,759 confirmed but if there are vents there 1272 00:45:15,319 --> 00:45:13,619 it might be the type similar to lost 1273 00:45:18,170 --> 00:45:15,329 city where it's an alkaline vent and you 1274 00:45:19,999 --> 00:45:18,180 have kind of a lower temperature and so 1275 00:45:21,650 --> 00:45:20,009 we're also working on temperature 1276 00:45:23,210 --> 00:45:21,660 gradients in these systems so trying to 1277 00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,220 heat the inside and then keep the 1278 00:45:26,749 --> 00:45:24,960 outside cold as opposed to just having 1279 00:45:28,549 --> 00:45:26,759 the whole thing be room temperature and 1280 00:45:31,309 --> 00:45:28,559 that can also affect the chemistry too 1281 00:45:33,380 --> 00:45:31,319 and then we also do different types of 1282 00:45:35,660 --> 00:45:33,390 minerals where you can even make it non 1283 00:45:37,339 --> 00:45:35,670 earth-like so things like if you had 1284 00:45:39,319 --> 00:45:37,349 let's say an ocean with different metals 1285 00:45:42,049 --> 00:45:39,329 in it or a very different pH gradient 1286 00:45:44,269 --> 00:45:42,059 and so that's that's one of the perks of 1287 00:45:45,950 --> 00:45:44,279 lab is you can you can change things up 1288 00:45:49,460 --> 00:45:45,960 such that it never existed on earth at 1289 00:45:51,529 --> 00:45:49,470 all that's a great target specific 1290 00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:51,539 environmental variables to see how that 1291 00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:53,880 affects the entire entire thing how 1292 00:45:59,479 --> 00:45:56,700 fragile are the springs the chimneys 1293 00:46:01,940 --> 00:45:59,489 that you build in your lab it really 1294 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:01,950 depends on the type they're generally 1295 00:46:06,259 --> 00:46:03,690 very fragile for some of them that we 1296 00:46:07,849 --> 00:46:06,269 grew if you so much as like jostle the 1297 00:46:10,220 --> 00:46:07,859 experiment that chimney just falls down 1298 00:46:12,499 --> 00:46:10,230 it kind of turns into powder and so that 1299 00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:12,509 that type can be unfortunate sometimes 1300 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:13,920 if you're trying to say analyze 1301 00:46:18,529 --> 00:46:16,170 meteorology but then other types that we 1302 00:46:20,359 --> 00:46:18,539 grow if you are careful you can remove 1303 00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:20,369 the ocean with a pipette and the chimney 1304 00:46:23,569 --> 00:46:22,079 will just stand there and you can take 1305 00:46:26,539 --> 00:46:23,579 the chimney off and then do things with 1306 00:46:28,489 --> 00:46:26,549 it so we over the years have kind of we 1307 00:46:29,690 --> 00:46:28,499 have certain ideas and recipes where we 1308 00:46:31,849 --> 00:46:29,700 know that those are going to be more 1309 00:46:32,620 --> 00:46:31,859 structurally stable and if you need to 1310 00:46:34,510 --> 00:46:32,630 do the same in 1311 00:46:36,610 --> 00:46:34,520 ecology on the chimney we will make the 1312 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:36,620 ones that you know can remain after your 1313 00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:38,330 move evolution there's a bit of an art 1314 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:39,520 to it for sure 1315 00:46:46,570 --> 00:46:42,770 so that's your your invader payload can 1316 00:46:48,460 --> 00:46:46,580 do mineralogy and chemistry yes I could 1317 00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,470 do mineralogy and chemistry and by 1318 00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:50,720 combining you know what minerals you see 1319 00:46:54,310 --> 00:46:52,280 and Raman let's say with elements that 1320 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:54,320 you see and lives you can start to get 1321 00:46:58,570 --> 00:46:56,090 at you know what types of geochemistry 1322 00:47:00,160 --> 00:46:58,580 are present and you know whether there's 1323 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:00,170 life or not and then also what other 1324 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:02,450 elements are there as well and you can 1325 00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:04,490 see Sado that you can say all that 1326 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:06,110 without actually touching the vent 1327 00:47:12,730 --> 00:47:09,050 system right just using lasers that's 1328 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:12,740 right a standoff payload and so that is 1329 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:14,210 also something to do in the lab you know 1330 00:47:18,130 --> 00:47:15,650 it's important to test in the lab that 1331 00:47:20,260 --> 00:47:18,140 that we can get the same or similar some 1332 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:20,270 results that you can get by doing all 1333 00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:22,010 your state-of-the-art sample processing 1334 00:47:28,060 --> 00:47:24,710 so that is a part of also what we're 1335 00:47:31,090 --> 00:47:28,070 working on in my group is fascinating 1336 00:47:33,490 --> 00:47:31,100 gaurav yet Ivan sagen it asks what type 1337 00:47:38,860 --> 00:47:33,500 of molecules can be considered bio 1338 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:38,870 signatures that you're working with so 1339 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:40,610 that's that's a good question and I 1340 00:47:44,260 --> 00:47:42,050 don't think that there is an answer 1341 00:47:46,810 --> 00:47:44,270 honestly because you know we don't know 1342 00:47:49,690 --> 00:47:46,820 yet what types of molecules can be 1343 00:47:52,990 --> 00:47:49,700 formed abiotic ly exclusively or about 1344 00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:53,000 biologically exclusively and kind of I 1345 00:47:55,780 --> 00:47:54,560 think the field of origin of life is 1346 00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:55,790 showing us that there's a lot of 1347 00:47:59,500 --> 00:47:57,680 complexity and a lot of interesting 1348 00:48:02,620 --> 00:47:59,510 organic chemistry that can occur without 1349 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:02,630 life and so which molecule is a bio 1350 00:48:06,190 --> 00:48:04,490 signature I think you'd have to do a 1351 00:48:07,180 --> 00:48:06,200 thorough study of making sure that 1352 00:48:09,730 --> 00:48:07,190 cannot be formed 1353 00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:09,740 abiotic ly and so we've we've begun but 1354 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:12,710 I mean this is a huge endeavor but that 1355 00:48:16,420 --> 00:48:14,510 is the question and anytime people say 1356 00:48:17,950 --> 00:48:16,430 oh this is a bio signature we should 1357 00:48:19,660 --> 00:48:17,960 think really hard about can this be 1358 00:48:21,340 --> 00:48:19,670 formed without life and even if you 1359 00:48:23,790 --> 00:48:21,350 haven't seen it on earth yet can it be 1360 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:23,800 done anyway so we have to figure out how 1361 00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:25,970 yeah I mean I'm saying the question of 1362 00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:26,960 whether or not we're alone in the 1363 00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:28,880 universe is such an important one to get 1364 00:48:33,730 --> 00:48:32,240 right we cannot like dabble in like oh 1365 00:48:37,540 --> 00:48:33,740 yeah perhaps no that's meaningless 1366 00:48:41,410 --> 00:48:37,550 answer so the next question is is much 1367 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:41,420 broader in scope and it's asked by art 1368 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:45,170 of inquiry on Twitter who asks what 1369 00:48:48,250 --> 00:48:46,370 topics of Astro bar 1370 00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:48,260 we are the most important to share with 1371 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:50,510 young surgeons in your opinion which 1372 00:48:55,150 --> 00:48:53,090 ones excite you the most and why what 1373 00:48:59,230 --> 00:48:55,160 are the most counterintuitive findings 1374 00:49:02,320 --> 00:48:59,240 of astrobiology that's good one it's 1375 00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:02,330 very broad so I think it really depends 1376 00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:05,390 who you ask of course so for me I like 1377 00:49:08,740 --> 00:49:07,430 to share things that relate to their 1378 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:08,750 experience because I find that that 1379 00:49:13,570 --> 00:49:11,810 helps them engage more so for example if 1380 00:49:15,130 --> 00:49:13,580 I share astrobiology thats related to 1381 00:49:17,290 --> 00:49:15,140 missions that they can currently see on 1382 00:49:19,570 --> 00:49:17,300 like on the news and they can see the 1383 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:19,580 data coming back in real time so things 1384 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:21,650 like the Mars rover that's there now or 1385 00:49:25,570 --> 00:49:23,090 the orbiters that are there now I think 1386 00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:25,580 is is exciting but also I think it's 1387 00:49:28,420 --> 00:49:26,720 important to share with them 1388 00:49:30,220 --> 00:49:28,430 astrobiology that relates to earth 1389 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:30,230 science because you know it kind of 1390 00:49:34,030 --> 00:49:32,090 links together how we how we think about 1391 00:49:36,220 --> 00:49:34,040 the earth and the climate and so forth 1392 00:49:38,860 --> 00:49:36,230 and how all that related over the long 1393 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:38,870 geological time period and how life and 1394 00:49:42,580 --> 00:49:40,970 earth have been you know Co evolving for 1395 00:49:43,930 --> 00:49:42,590 four billion years so I think it's 1396 00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:43,940 important to kind of relate it to you 1397 00:49:47,410 --> 00:49:45,680 the earth and the things that they will 1398 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:47,420 experience and also to the missions that 1399 00:49:52,090 --> 00:49:49,610 they can see and then and then later on 1400 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:52,100 go into stuff that is more you know 1401 00:49:55,390 --> 00:49:54,050 distant like missions in the past or 1402 00:49:58,570 --> 00:49:55,400 other types of science that might be 1403 00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,580 more esoteric alright cool right answer 1404 00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:01,760 thank you great question - Andrew 1405 00:50:07,930 --> 00:50:04,880 planets on cigarette hi Andrew asks if 1406 00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:07,940 all life on Earth is is related did life 1407 00:50:11,950 --> 00:50:09,590 start in one instance and then quickly 1408 00:50:13,330 --> 00:50:11,960 spread you know by catalyzing the 1409 00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:13,340 environments to make its continued 1410 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:16,160 existence possible or if life started 1411 00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:17,810 more than once could different branches 1412 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:22,190 have merged well we don't actually know 1413 00:50:26,890 --> 00:50:24,170 and so there's various possibilities you 1414 00:50:28,810 --> 00:50:26,900 know so one is there is just one origin 1415 00:50:30,490 --> 00:50:28,820 and then it evolved one is that there's 1416 00:50:33,010 --> 00:50:30,500 multiple origins but none of the others 1417 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:33,020 worked one is that there were things 1418 00:50:37,570 --> 00:50:35,570 that merged and so I think the thing is 1419 00:50:39,820 --> 00:50:37,580 all you can really tell from the tree of 1420 00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:39,830 life is where the root is and you can 1421 00:50:43,090 --> 00:50:41,180 kind of go back to say like what's the 1422 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:43,100 last ancestor but you can't go back 1423 00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:45,290 beyond that to say what was all the 1424 00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:46,580 origin of life things that happen 1425 00:50:51,340 --> 00:50:48,710 because that's not visible in that sense 1426 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:51,350 and so it's now thought that the 1427 00:50:55,630 --> 00:50:53,450 original ancestor of life was not one 1428 00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:55,640 cell but it's a community of cells and 1429 00:50:59,440 --> 00:50:57,440 you know genetic materials being 1430 00:51:01,540 --> 00:50:59,450 exchanged and there's it's kind of hard 1431 00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:01,550 to say it's just one type of life but 1432 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:03,830 was it from one origin or not we don't 1433 00:51:07,690 --> 00:51:05,570 really know so you have to approach this 1434 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:07,700 kind of from top down which is that sort 1435 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:09,530 of thing we look at life now and you say 1436 00:51:14,770 --> 00:51:12,770 how does all life relate and you can get 1437 00:51:16,930 --> 00:51:14,780 to must be somehow related to the origin 1438 00:51:19,090 --> 00:51:16,940 and then you do bottom up where you say 1439 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:19,100 Woodall was early earth and what could 1440 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:21,170 have happen and all those possibilities 1441 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:23,450 which one leads you closest to what that 1442 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:25,970 thought that top-down suggests that's 1443 00:51:28,750 --> 00:51:27,170 kind of where the different origin of 1444 00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:28,760 life people work and you try to you try 1445 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:30,110 to meet at something that makes sense 1446 00:51:34,180 --> 00:51:32,210 from both ends but but you can't get 1447 00:51:34,650 --> 00:51:34,190 really the answer from only one or the 1448 00:51:37,420 --> 00:51:34,660 other 1449 00:51:39,340 --> 00:51:37,430 yeah I I've been thinking about the 1450 00:51:41,110 --> 00:51:39,350 analogy of using the evolution of humans 1451 00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:41,120 in a sense that we're Homo sapiens now 1452 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:43,730 but we're not when we started and so if 1453 00:51:47,410 --> 00:51:45,890 you just used homo sapiens as your idea 1454 00:51:49,090 --> 00:51:47,420 of where humans come from you'll get it 1455 00:51:50,740 --> 00:51:49,100 wrong because there was just you know 1456 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:50,750 Astra political travel hope it occurs 1457 00:51:54,550 --> 00:51:52,610 there was Neanderthals and so on so it's 1458 00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:54,560 it's it's right now we can only do with 1459 00:51:58,300 --> 00:51:56,390 genetics go down to Luke the last 1460 00:52:01,870 --> 00:51:58,310 Universal common ancestor boots below 1461 00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:01,880 that is up to speculation so I good 1462 00:52:08,620 --> 00:52:05,510 question Andrew TJ acharya on twitter 1463 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:08,630 asks is there any other factor that may 1464 00:52:13,470 --> 00:52:10,370 influence development of amino acids 1465 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:13,480 other than minerals or pH or temperature 1466 00:52:19,810 --> 00:52:16,730 well yes there's many so so many so I 1467 00:52:22,210 --> 00:52:19,820 mean my favorite ones are concentration 1468 00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:22,220 of other chemicals so for example how 1469 00:52:25,630 --> 00:52:23,870 much if you're making an amino acid you 1470 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:25,640 have an amine right and so that's a 1471 00:52:29,830 --> 00:52:27,890 nitrogen component and so how much 1472 00:52:31,810 --> 00:52:29,840 nitrogen is in the system and what type 1473 00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:31,820 of nitrogen is it and ready to come from 1474 00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:33,590 and so I think that's one factor that 1475 00:52:38,110 --> 00:52:36,440 can affect it and then there's also I 1476 00:52:40,090 --> 00:52:38,120 think you mentioned redox but it's more 1477 00:52:41,740 --> 00:52:40,100 specific than that the redox fate of 1478 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:41,750 minerals in the system can affect things 1479 00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:44,210 so even if you have reactive minerals if 1480 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:45,620 they're slightly more reduced or more 1481 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:47,930 oxidized that can affect things I also 1482 00:52:52,570 --> 00:52:49,970 bet that if you added other chemicals 1483 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:52,580 like say sulfur phosphorus or things 1484 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:54,770 like that it might affect that so all of 1485 00:52:59,140 --> 00:52:56,810 these systems are hugely complex 1486 00:53:00,610 --> 00:52:59,150 intertwine networks and you have to sort 1487 00:53:02,650 --> 00:53:00,620 of understand how the network of 1488 00:53:04,540 --> 00:53:02,660 chemistry is functioning under all these 1489 00:53:06,580 --> 00:53:04,550 different conditions so let's see it's a 1490 00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,590 quite a lot of experiments it's 1491 00:53:10,210 --> 00:53:08,240 complicated for sure that's what makes 1492 00:53:11,710 --> 00:53:10,220 it exciting Laurie I can't believe we've 1493 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:11,720 been chatting for practically 1494 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:13,490 our now so unfortunately we have to wrap 1495 00:53:17,020 --> 00:53:15,770 up the show I'm really grateful that you 1496 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:17,030 took the time to talk with us today 1497 00:53:21,310 --> 00:53:19,130 perhaps you have any final words of 1498 00:53:24,250 --> 00:53:21,320 wisdom for the early career scientists 1499 00:53:25,810 --> 00:53:24,260 who are watching us um well I guess just 1500 00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:25,820 to uh you know do things that you're 1501 00:53:29,770 --> 00:53:28,310 interested in and try to discover new 1502 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:29,780 things and don't think that you have to 1503 00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,490 build your career based on what your 1504 00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:32,960 college degree was in or what your first 1505 00:53:37,210 --> 00:53:35,030 internship was or whatever and it's 1506 00:53:38,980 --> 00:53:37,220 expected of course that as you get a job 1507 00:53:40,599 --> 00:53:38,990 and move forward we're going to discover 1508 00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:40,609 all types of new research and new 1509 00:53:44,109 --> 00:53:42,710 ventures that are interesting so it's 1510 00:53:46,660 --> 00:53:44,119 important to just be open to new 1511 00:53:49,420 --> 00:53:46,670 opportunity and not try to box it in so 1512 00:53:51,609 --> 00:53:49,430 early that's that's great advice your 1513 00:53:54,099 --> 00:53:51,619 university degree does not define who 1514 00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:54,109 you are as a human or as a scientist at 1515 00:53:57,970 --> 00:53:55,520 all it just shows you can solve a 1516 00:53:59,920 --> 00:53:57,980 difficult problem so thank you again 1517 00:54:01,540 --> 00:53:59,930 Arie it was absolutely awesome to have 1518 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:01,550 you on the show I love that conversation 1519 00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:03,290 for those of you watching did you know 1520 00:54:08,380 --> 00:54:05,119 that today was the first episode of 1521 00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:08,390 season four of asking astrobiologists we 1522 00:54:12,609 --> 00:54:10,160 want to know who you'd like to see on 1523 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:12,619 the show who should we invite and chat 1524 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:13,970 with to have this phenomenal 1525 00:54:18,070 --> 00:54:16,010 conversations and so let us know you 1526 00:54:19,900 --> 00:54:18,080 know on all the social medias and then 1527 00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,910 we'll do our best to to make you guys 1528 00:54:24,460 --> 00:54:21,920 happy we're having so much fun here in 1529 00:54:27,070 --> 00:54:24,470 organizing this program so until next 1530 00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:27,080 episode everybody stay curious take care 1531 00:55:07,870 --> 00:54:28,030 now